One of the key questions you brought up when discussing "This Side of Paradise" talked about whether or not wealth defines who we are and where we stand in society. Even though I have not read "This Side of Paradise", I have read "Gatsby" and I thought about whether or not wealth defines Gatsby the same as it does Myrtle and George for example. Gatsby has all the money in the world while Mytrle and George have barely anything. However, all three characters die in the end just the same, no matter how much money they had.
I can also see a connection here to the writing of Charles Dickens. Dickens believes that becoming a gentleman is not about wealth. This opinion greatly contrasts the writing of Fitzgerald. Gatsby uses a vast majority of his wealth to throw extravagant parties in order to impress his peers and Daisy. Therefore, he is occasionally referred to as a “gentleman” throughout the novel. I find it interesting that two authors have such vastly different opinions on such a similar topic. How do you think Fitzgerald would respond to Dickens’ views on becoming a “gentleman”?
To add on to Maddie's post, I thought Amanda's point from her presentation that death is "the great equalizer" is a good reference to bring up here. It didn't matter what the American dream meant for each of the people in either book or how much money they did indeed earn, because in the end everyone will die and it's not necessarily wealth that will leave behind a legacy. I've always liked the fact that there was an American dream, but your protrayal of these novels made me realize that for minoritie as you said The American dream was tainted and oftentimes unattainable
I think the time period, though, contributed mainly to the American dream being tained and oftentimes unattainable. As you quoted from This Side of Paradise that the "morals were looser and the liquer was cheaper", I think the immorality of the 1920s (at least what I believe to be immorality) contributed to the tainting of the American dream. Those with money could act as they pleased during the roaring 20s, and the time period catered to them then. Those who had to sacrifice and work to make their own way in the country wouldn't have been given the opportunity to do so when the time period didn't cater to a working class.
I would like to add on to Mary’s comment about immorality. I have read The Great Gatsby before and it seems that the immoral choices made by the characters could have a lot to do with their age. Being young adults, they feel as though the world cannot touch them and that was definitely a mindset of the 1920’s. Also, I was not in class when you gave your presentation but by looking through your power point, it seems to point out how Nick believed that the world around him was tainted and corrupted from the yearning for wealth. I would have to agree with this analysis. However, I find Nick is very hypocritical because though he boasted that he was taught right and wrong from a young age and that perhaps he is more moral and neutral in his judgments than others, his morals seem to change as he is caught in the very same crowd that that he had judged very harshly earlier. This goes back to the naïve nature of people in that same decade. With a decade that seemed to be giving, the “American Dream” seemed that it was possible and the thought of no worries could have caused people to be naïve.
One thing I noticed from your presentation and from the novels that you've read for your project was how the message that F. Scott Fitzgerald portrayed and analyzed in his novels wasn't a particularly new one or engaging one by all means. It was how he spoke about his opinions about it that really made all the difference. It was the plot and the drama in the novels that reinforced his point so well, and focusing on The Great Gatsby, how love ended up being Gatsby's demise. Something so intimate and real as that emotion of love, helps to portray the superficiality and lack of morality that the society in the 1920s possessed, and it was that juxtaposition that helped Fitzgerald to make his point even better.
I agree with Alyssa that Fitxgerald's message is nothing new, but what makes it engaging and innovative is his central plot of a love story between Gatsby and Daisy. I think that the love story betwee them also represents the idea that the American Dream is unattainable, because Gatsby is a man with incredible wealth and power, yet he still can't have the one thing he truly desires which is a life with Daisy. The fact that despit all his material possesions Gatsby is still left empty-handed (in terms of his relationship with Daisy, shows how the American Dream has lost it's meaning and is impossible for anyone to truly acheive it.
I really like the input you had that of the American Dream. I feel that so many people are chasing the same dream, though with so many chasing the same thing, there is only room for some to achieve it. When I read the Great Gatsby last year I hated the idea of the American Dream, I feel that it is a dead dream to chase, that you suffer more trying to actually achieve it than rather be happy. Like Amanda pointed out the american dream is unattainable for Gatsby. I really like how you pointed out that Gatsby is what F.Scott Fitzgerald wanted to be, to impress Zelda. Do you think that a separation of the wealthy and everyone is still present in today's society? Or is it pretty spread out. Do you think that there will be another era kinda like the 20's?
Firstly, I'm so glad that you chose to study Fitzgerald's works and include the trailer for the new movie. His portrayal of the roaring twenties is truly an intriguing and exciting one; it makes me want to live back then, despite the rather depressing end of the story. Also, I really liked Madison's comparison of Gatsby to Dickens' works. In my opinion, I believe that Jay Gatsby would look down upon Dickens' ideas of a gentleman just because it didn't focus on financial success, but rather, self-satisfaction. I do believe that Fitzgerald, on the other hand, would agree with Dickens' idea of a gentleman. Throughout Gatsby, he seems to be using satire to mock the shallowness created by the lavish lifestyles of the twenties. It seems to me that Fitzgerald, much like Dickens, shares the belief that materials and wealth ruin a perfectly good character and can, eventually, lead to that character's downfall.
One of the key questions you brought up when discussing "This Side of Paradise" talked about whether or not wealth defines who we are and where we stand in society. Even though I have not read "This Side of Paradise", I have read "Gatsby" and I thought about whether or not wealth defines Gatsby the same as it does Myrtle and George for example. Gatsby has all the money in the world while Mytrle and George have barely anything. However, all three characters die in the end just the same, no matter how much money they had.
ReplyDeleteI can also see a connection here to the writing of Charles Dickens. Dickens believes that becoming a gentleman is not about wealth. This opinion greatly contrasts the writing of Fitzgerald. Gatsby uses a vast majority of his wealth to throw extravagant parties in order to impress his peers and Daisy. Therefore, he is occasionally referred to as a “gentleman” throughout the novel. I find it interesting that two authors have such vastly different opinions on such a similar topic. How do you think Fitzgerald would respond to Dickens’ views on becoming a “gentleman”?
DeleteTo add on to Maddie's post, I thought Amanda's point from her presentation that death is "the great equalizer" is a good reference to bring up here. It didn't matter what the American dream meant for each of the people in either book or how much money they did indeed earn, because in the end everyone will die and it's not necessarily wealth that will leave behind a legacy. I've always liked the fact that there was an American dream, but your protrayal of these novels made me realize that for minoritie as you said
ReplyDeleteThe American dream was tainted and oftentimes unattainable
I think the time period, though, contributed mainly to the American dream being tained and oftentimes unattainable. As you quoted from This Side of Paradise that the "morals were looser and the liquer was cheaper", I think the immorality of the 1920s (at least what I believe to be immorality) contributed to the tainting of the American dream. Those with money could act as they pleased during the roaring 20s, and the time period catered to them then. Those who had to sacrifice and work to make their own way in the country wouldn't have been given the opportunity to do so when the time period didn't cater to a working class.
DeleteI would like to add on to Mary’s comment about immorality. I have read The Great Gatsby before and it seems that the immoral choices made by the characters could have a lot to do with their age. Being young adults, they feel as though the world cannot touch them and that was definitely a mindset of the 1920’s. Also, I was not in class when you gave your presentation but by looking through your power point, it seems to point out how Nick believed that the world around him was tainted and corrupted from the yearning for wealth. I would have to agree with this analysis. However, I find Nick is very hypocritical because though he boasted that he was taught right and wrong from a young age and that perhaps he is more moral and neutral in his judgments than others, his morals seem to change as he is caught in the very same crowd that that he had judged very harshly earlier. This goes back to the naïve nature of people in that same decade. With a decade that seemed to be giving, the “American Dream” seemed that it was possible and the thought of no worries could have caused people to be naïve.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I noticed from your presentation and from the novels that you've read for your project was how the message that F. Scott Fitzgerald portrayed and analyzed in his novels wasn't a particularly new one or engaging one by all means. It was how he spoke about his opinions about it that really made all the difference. It was the plot and the drama in the novels that reinforced his point so well, and focusing on The Great Gatsby, how love ended up being Gatsby's demise. Something so intimate and real as that emotion of love, helps to portray the superficiality and lack of morality that the society in the 1920s possessed, and it was that juxtaposition that helped Fitzgerald to make his point even better.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Alyssa that Fitxgerald's message is nothing new, but what makes it engaging and innovative is his central plot of a love story between Gatsby and Daisy. I think that the love story betwee them also represents the idea that the American Dream is unattainable, because Gatsby is a man with incredible wealth and power, yet he still can't have the one thing he truly desires which is a life with Daisy. The fact that despit all his material possesions Gatsby is still left empty-handed (in terms of his relationship with Daisy, shows how the American Dream has lost it's meaning and is impossible for anyone to truly acheive it.
ReplyDeleteI really like the input you had that of the American Dream. I feel that so many people are chasing the same dream, though with so many chasing the same thing, there is only room for some to achieve it. When I read the Great Gatsby last year I hated the idea of the American Dream, I feel that it is a dead dream to chase, that you suffer more trying to actually achieve it than rather be happy. Like Amanda pointed out the american dream is unattainable for Gatsby. I really like how you pointed out that Gatsby is what F.Scott Fitzgerald wanted to be, to impress Zelda. Do you think that a separation of the wealthy and everyone is still present in today's society? Or is it pretty spread out. Do you think that there will be another era kinda like the 20's?
ReplyDeleteFirstly, I'm so glad that you chose to study Fitzgerald's works and include the trailer for the new movie. His portrayal of the roaring twenties is truly an intriguing and exciting one; it makes me want to live back then, despite the rather depressing end of the story. Also, I really liked Madison's comparison of Gatsby to Dickens' works. In my opinion, I believe that Jay Gatsby would look down upon Dickens' ideas of a gentleman just because it didn't focus on financial success, but rather, self-satisfaction. I do believe that Fitzgerald, on the other hand, would agree with Dickens' idea of a gentleman. Throughout Gatsby, he seems to be using satire to mock the shallowness created by the lavish lifestyles of the twenties. It seems to me that Fitzgerald, much like Dickens, shares the belief that materials and wealth ruin a perfectly good character and can, eventually, lead to that character's downfall.
ReplyDelete